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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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so first applause i've got all year i

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must be doing something right my name is

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richard saunders from the

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australian skeptics and the skeptic zone

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podcast and if you will indulge me folks

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before we get into tonight's activity

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i'll do a brief introduction

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for my next podcast hello and welcome to

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the skeptic zone podcast episode number

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661 for the 6th of june

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2021 richard saunders coming to you live

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from sydney skeptics in the pub

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[Applause]

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it's not like we rehearsed that or

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anything coming up on this week's show

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interviews from skeptics in the pub

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we're so pleased to be back here once

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again

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our last meeting was last year in fact

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in

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march so it's really nice to be back

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with you all again

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also coming up on this week's episode

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the book of tim with

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poor tim and the book of tim is tim

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uh with items from the skeptic magazine

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on the table in front of me folks

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there's lots of copies of the skeptic

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magazine and the skeptical inquirer

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please come forward at any convenient

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moment and help yourself to those

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magazines

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we also have on this week's episode news

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from australian skeptics via the

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newsletter written by

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oh tim mendenham over there

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you're getting fans slowly but surely

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tim

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and this week's trove segment which is

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looking at digital archives of

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newspapers

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looks at historical and hysterical

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references to the full moon

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oh thank you tim does the full moon lead

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to more crime we'll find out in the

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trove

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segment well that's all for me at the

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moment it's time for me to

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sit at my table and have another drink

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while i do that i hope you all enjoy

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the skeptic zone

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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sometimes i admit i feel nostalgia for

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the old days

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i guess that's what nostalgia is ufos

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aliens close encounters of the third

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kind

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all the sorts of things that were very

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familiar to me growing up in the 1970s

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[Music]

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and once more for the record of course

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and this is something that

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i've been saying ever since i was in the

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skeptical movement and

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it's broadly the consensus of skeptics

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worldwide

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is that we're not saying aliens cannot

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and have not visited

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the earth but in the words of carl sagan

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for all i know we may be visited by a

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different extraterrestrial civilization

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every second

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tuesday but there's no support for this

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appealing idea

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the extraordinary claims are not

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supported by extraordinary evidence

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to this day we are still battling people

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who think that we

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skeptics don't won't can't believe in

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uh extraterrestrial life or the

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possibility that uh

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somehow they have managed to find earth

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and they're buzzing around in

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their spaceships it's just

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exceedingly unlikely

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and there's no good supporting evidence

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and it seems to me that ufos and

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stories of aliens have their it's a

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frequency it comes and goes

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at the moment it's back again it's back

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again there was a special

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here in australia last week on ufos and

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aliens

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and soon the united states government

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are going to be releasing some

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files or other but apparently

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as reported by cnn on the 4th of

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june by zachary cohen and katie bo

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williams

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us intelligence officials have no

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evidence confirming

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navy pilot ufo encounters were alien

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spacecraft

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and this says in part u.s intelligence

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officials have no evidence confirming

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that unidentified flying objects

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encountered by the us navy pilots

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in recent years were alien spacecraft

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but also have not reached a definitive

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assessment

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as to what these mysterious objects

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might be

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according to five sources familiar with

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the findings of an upcoming report on

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ufos

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that is expected to be delivered to

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congress later this month

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according to three of those sources the

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report does not however rule out

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the possibility that they are alien

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spacecraft

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why that's all very well they also don't

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rule out that it's

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you dear listener tricking them by

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flying around in

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something you invented in other words

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not ruling something out does not mean

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it's even remotely likely to be

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what's causing these sightings

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while that uncertainty is likely a blow

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to the hopes of ufo enthusiasts

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who are hoping for definitive proof of

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extraterrestrial life

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it does not minimize the significance of

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the report

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what sources describe as a years-long

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battle

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inside the pentagon over whether even to

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acknowledge

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what are now hundreds of unexplained

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sightings by u.s military personnel

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later on in the report it says

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no proof of little green men isn't that

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interesting that that

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uh antiquated saying is still in use

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i guess it's part of our culture little

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green men as if aliens must be smaller

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than us

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be men and be green

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little green men the upcoming report is

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unlikely to satisfy ufologists

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who support what's known as quote

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disclosure

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end quote or the government release of

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definitive evidence

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that it has been contacted by

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extraterrestrial life

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quote most people would be hoping for

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visual evidence of little green men

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which is almost certainly not going to

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be the case in quote

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a congressional aide told cnn referring

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to

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expectations about the report's contents

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now there is more on that report from

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cnn i'll link to that in this week's

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show notes

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but with all this recent talk about ufos

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and

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in australia

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this came to my notice posted on

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facebook a link at least from

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the center for inquiry and it's a poster

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you can download and put on the wall

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next to your ufo pictures i guess

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skeptical inquirers tips for keeping ufo

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reporting grounded in reality

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and there's some good advice here

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unidentified

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does not equal aliens sources often

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conflate sightings of something in the

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sky with extraterrestrials

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most ufos become ifos identified flying

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objects

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just because alien life is possible it

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doesn't mean they're here

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the fact that some astronomers believe

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on a

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statistical basis that life may exist

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elsewhere in the universe

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does not mean they think that aliens may

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have arrived

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or that they ever will we can't identify

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everything

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not every question gets answered there

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are always going to be some unresolved

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sightings often where very little is

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known

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or recorded ufo enthusiasts have

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motivations

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there are always going to be officials

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among the sprawling defense

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agency and their contractors who have to

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take the reports of ufos

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seriously as well as politicians and

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public figures for whom ufo

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controversies serve their particular

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ends

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talk to the actual experts

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when possible it's best to seek out

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independent

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knowledgeable scientific and technical

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sources

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not just enthusiasts and believers

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csi can connect journalists

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to these experts and as an assigned i'll

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say

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so can the australian skeptics anecdote

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is not data

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statements from sources such as it flew

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away at speeds unimaginable

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or turned in a way impossible for any

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aircraft today

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are not reliable remember occam's razor

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even highly advanced imaging equipment

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is susceptible to errors

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and human misinterpretations plausible

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terrestrial explanations have been

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advanced for all the u s

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navy videos that have caused so much

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fuss

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and i think that last bit largely

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refers to the work done by mick west who

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we've spoken about before on the skeptic

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zone and his excellent videos simply

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examining examining the evidence put

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forward by ufo

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uh proponents such videos known as tick

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tock and go fast

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so it appears to me that mid 2021

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will simply be catalogued in the long

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annals of uh ufo

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history as a blip another uptick

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before the predicted downtick and a

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couple of years two three four there'll

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be something else happening

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maybe when there are more moon landings

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or so on and so forth

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but again in the words of carl sagan in

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the vastness of the cosmos

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there must be other civilizations far

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older and

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more advanced than ours so shouldn't we

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have been visited

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shouldn't there be every now and then

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alien ships

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in the skies of earth

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there's nothing impossible in this idea

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and no one would be happier than me if

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we were being visited

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but has it happened in fact

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what counts is not what sounds plausible

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not what we'd like to believe

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not what one or two witnesses claim but

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only what is supported by

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hard evidence rigorously and skeptically

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examined

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extraordinary claims require

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yes good old ufos a blast from the past

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and something which will probably come

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[Music]

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this is kyle from the data skeptic

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podcast if you're curious about the way

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data is changing our world topics like

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ai and

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all this craziness with facebook and

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bots and the twitter storm and

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how the algorithms that underline that

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work and you don't want a technical deep

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dive you want it

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you know in the vernacular in a way that

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people can understand check us out at

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data skeptic that's what we try and do

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i interview advanced professionals in

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00:11:54,949 --> 00:11:54,480
the field who do this sort of research

291
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and then

292
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:58,240
i get into interesting projects as well

293
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[Music]

294
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:01,600
we're a weekly show and you can find us

295
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:10,760
at datasceptic.com

296
00:12:22,230 --> 00:12:20,310
i can't believe it folks here we are in

297
00:12:25,590 --> 00:12:22,240
the occidental hotel the first time

298
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,600
since march 2020

299
00:12:29,269 --> 00:12:28,000
and then well you know what happened we

300
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:29,279
were going to have skeptics in the pub

301
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,120
last month here in the bub that was

302
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:33,279
cancelled last minute because of covert

303
00:12:36,949 --> 00:12:34,959
and i'm here a little bit early to have

304
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,959
a quick chat to my friend daryl cahoon

305
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:39,360
hello daryl g'day hi there richard

306
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:40,800
and uh thanks for coming along to mind

307
00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:43,120
body wallet the other week um

308
00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:45,680
it was quite an experience it's always

309
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,200
an experience isn't it

310
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:49,279
it's always it's always an experience

311
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:51,040
and one of the things that interested me

312
00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,079
was the the

313
00:12:56,310 --> 00:12:54,160
genuine things that were there the the

314
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:56,320
unhcr the united nations high commission

315
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:57,920
of refugees had are still there

316
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,360
flying doctors them um canteen

317
00:13:04,949 --> 00:13:04,079
there was a stall that was selling

318
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:04,959
photographs

319
00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:08,000
or images of the moon at any chosen date

320
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:08,399
yes

321
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:11,760
for example your birthday now i wouldn't

322
00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:13,120
necessarily be interested in such a

323
00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:16,320
thing but it's real it's not it's not

324
00:13:20,310 --> 00:13:18,160
i assume that they're doing a real thing

325
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:20,320
it's not it's not a fake

326
00:13:24,389 --> 00:13:22,480
and and but most of the most of the

327
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:24,399
material there that exhibition was of

328
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:25,519
course

329
00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:27,519
well yeah well what shall we say yes of

330
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:28,959
course it was yes

331
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:31,200
without putting too fine a point on it

332
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:32,560
uh there's all sorts of words we can

333
00:13:37,030 --> 00:13:34,000
look up in the thesaurus for

334
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,040
uh for nonsense but you know no but

335
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:39,440
it's in all seriousness there's lots at

336
00:13:42,069 --> 00:13:41,120
mind body wallet which is fun and

337
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:42,079
interesting and good

338
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,600
and um yummy to be blunt yeah

339
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,600
including the food and coffee including

340
00:13:50,389 --> 00:13:49,040
the food and coffee

341
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,399
anybody here we are we're back at

342
00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:52,399
skeptics in the pub we're a bit early as

343
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:54,000
i said just to have a bit of a chat

344
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,440
there's a few oh a few people

345
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:56,959
are turning up already which is really

346
00:14:00,870 --> 00:13:59,360
good dr brad is talking tonight but it's

347
00:14:03,580 --> 00:14:00,880
just nice to be back

348
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,590
in the pub so cheers daryl

349
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:04,959
[Music]

350
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:13,189
here at skeptics in the pub tim it's

351
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:16,000
great to be back in the pub

352
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:17,600
lost his voice it's very good to be back

353
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:19,680
here thanks richard i'm really enjoying

354
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:20,639
it actually actually

355
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:23,519
seeing real life people it's great as i

356
00:14:48,389 --> 00:14:24,000
i

357
00:14:49,670 --> 00:14:48,399
people there's a lot of people here for

358
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:49,680
the first time there are

359
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,920
we had a great turnout for dr brad mckay

360
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:53,360
yes because they've obviously been

361
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:55,440
saving up their enthusiasm and energy

362
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,800
to actually meet the skeptics in the

363
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:58,480
flesh and they've done that it's been

364
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:59,920
great to talk to people who it is and

365
00:15:01,990 --> 00:15:00,720
and

366
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:02,000
lots of people still hanging around

367
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:03,440
after the dog which is really nice to

368
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:03,920
see

369
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:07,360
i might wander over this way i've just

370
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,399
um

371
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:10,560
bent more spoons these poor spoons i

372
00:15:15,829 --> 00:15:13,120
tell you

373
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:15,839
have you seen spoon bending before just

374
00:15:20,550 --> 00:15:17,440
in youtube videos

375
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:20,560
now you know how it's done exactly

376
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,519
i'll try myself at all the next youtube

377
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:25,120
video you'll see will be her right

378
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:26,639
and she'll be saying look i can really

379
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,560
bend spoons but uh thank you

380
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:30,000
look thank you everybody for coming on

381
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:31,279
the skeptics in the pub tonight because

382
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:32,720
this is the first one we've had in over

383
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:33,279
a year

384
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:35,040
it's just so nice to be back here to

385
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:36,720
socialize to have a few drinks and

386
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,399
to bend a few spoons so thank you very

387
00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:40,000
much thank you

388
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:42,079
thank you for organizing it our pleasure

389
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:44,240
and hope uh you'll be back next month

390
00:15:51,030 --> 00:15:49,910
just before you go dr brad mackay wow

391
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:51,040
what a great talk tonight

392
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,399
great to have you back at skeptics in

393
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:54,399
the pub it's weird to be out in public

394
00:15:56,790 --> 00:15:54,959
again

395
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:56,800
i've been in a hole for the whole year

396
00:16:00,389 --> 00:15:58,800
haven't we all haven't we all

397
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:00,399
uh tonight you gave a talk about your

398
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:02,480
new book uh which we interviewed you

399
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:03,440
about

400
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:04,800
a few weeks ago on the skeptic zone

401
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:06,399
maynard interviewed you how's the book

402
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:07,040
going

403
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:10,240
been trolled too much

404
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,600
yet so that i don't know if that's a

405
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,600
good or a bad thing but um

406
00:16:16,949 --> 00:16:16,079
we were time will tell but yeah but it's

407
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:16,959
been received well

408
00:16:22,770 --> 00:16:20,720
um i haven't pissed too many people off

409
00:16:24,310 --> 00:16:22,780
and um you're not doing it right then

410
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:24,320
[Music]

411
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:25,680
oh it's good to see photos coming

412
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,880
through from people finding the book at

413
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,720
the airport and at different bookstores

414
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:30,160
around so it's certainly out there and

415
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,720
available

416
00:16:33,590 --> 00:16:31,839
that's that's really good and the book

417
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:33,600
is called again it's called fake

418
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:34,560
medicine

419
00:16:39,829 --> 00:16:37,600
perfect for skeptics and um yes

420
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:39,839
a great passive aggressive present for

421
00:16:43,670 --> 00:16:41,199
all of your loved ones who

422
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:43,680
believe in q anon conspiracy theories or

423
00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:44,959
in alternative medicine

424
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:46,560
well folks i'll link to that once again

425
00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:48,000
in the show notes but brad thank you so

426
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:49,199
much for being

427
00:16:53,030 --> 00:16:51,199
uh for being our first speaker back here

428
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:53,040
in the pub after all this time it's very

429
00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:53,920
exciting yeah

430
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:02,230
i have not heard that one before thank

431
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:17,750
hi this is rob palmer i write the

432
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:18,959
well-known skeptic

433
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:22,000
column in skeptical inquirer online and

434
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,439
i'm a team member of the guerrilla

435
00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:25,439
skeptics on wikipedia project

436
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:28,720
gsow but you find folks may know me

437
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:29,760
because i contributed

438
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,840
segments for several episodes of this

439
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:33,200
podcast

440
00:17:39,270 --> 00:17:36,000
check out my interviews from cycon 2019

441
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:39,280
starting with episode 576

442
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,679
so here's a little known fact all of my

443
00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:43,360
skeptical activism stems from

444
00:17:48,950 --> 00:17:45,520
discovering the skeptic zone

445
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:48,960
yep i first heard of the gsow project

446
00:17:52,630 --> 00:17:51,360
right here back in 2012 due to richard's

447
00:17:54,390 --> 00:17:52,640
selfless support of it

448
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:54,400
and other skeptical activities around

449
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:55,679
the world

450
00:17:59,669 --> 00:17:58,160
i can honestly say i'd likely still be a

451
00:18:02,870 --> 00:17:59,679
skeptical couch potato

452
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:02,880
if i hadn't discovered this podcast

453
00:18:07,190 --> 00:18:05,039
so besides giving back to the zone by

454
00:18:08,950 --> 00:18:07,200
contributing occasional segments

455
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:08,960
i contribute to the success of the show

456
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,520
with ongoing monthly micropayments

457
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:13,520
and i'm asking you to consider doing the

458
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,640
same

459
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:16,640
you can do that by following the patreon

460
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:17,760
or paypal links

461
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:21,200
at skepticzone.tv every donation

462
00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:22,320
supports the show

463
00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:48,549
[Music]

464
00:18:52,350 --> 00:18:50,240
let's take a look at the australian

465
00:18:54,070 --> 00:18:52,360
skeptics newsletter newsletter number

466
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,080
124

467
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:57,360
and this was sent on the 1st

468
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:00,880
of june 2021

469
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:03,440
hi all it says lately we've had a

470
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,400
cluster of

471
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:07,200
science rejection slash denial stories

472
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:08,880
and a cluster of

473
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:12,080
ufo stories coincidence i think not

474
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:14,320
plus believe it or not a few stories

475
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:15,200
uncovered

476
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:19,120
and vaccination what a surprise read on

477
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,679
tim bendum and of course this is written

478
00:19:26,710 --> 00:19:23,600
and compiled by tim menden

479
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:26,720
and each story has a link you can click

480
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:36,470
covert elimination not mitigation

481
00:19:41,590 --> 00:19:39,600
creates best outcomes french study says

482
00:19:43,029 --> 00:19:41,600
that countries that consistently aim for

483
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:43,039
elimination

484
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:46,400
maximum action to control sars covet 2

485
00:19:49,750 --> 00:19:48,240
and stop community transmission as

486
00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:49,760
quickly as possible

487
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,880
including lockdown have generally fed

488
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:54,640
better than countries that opt for

489
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:56,160
mitigation

490
00:20:02,549 --> 00:19:59,200
i.e action increased in a

491
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:02,559
stepwise targeted way to reduce cases

492
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:04,840
so as not to overwhelm the healthcare

493
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:06,799
systems

494
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:09,039
why you should be skeptical of recent

495
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:10,720
ufo reports

496
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:13,840
a story on recent ufo videos in the u.s

497
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:16,240
with good scientific explanations

498
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:19,760
but ufo's stories still abound see later

499
00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:22,720
in this newsletter u.s study low

500
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:23,919
vaccination

501
00:20:27,990 --> 00:20:26,559
and low iq study looks at u.s

502
00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:28,000
vaccination rates

503
00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:30,799
there's others average iq scores the

504
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,080
result

505
00:20:35,669 --> 00:20:34,559
five of the 10 states with the lowest

506
00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:35,679
iqs

507
00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,159
are among the 10 states with the lowest

508
00:20:43,669 --> 00:20:40,320
rates of fully vaccinated

509
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:43,679
adults and half of the 10 smartest

510
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,120
states rank among the 10 most vaccinated

511
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,600
ones one question has to be asked

512
00:20:53,350 --> 00:20:51,919
is the rating of average iq

513
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:53,360
substantiated

514
00:20:58,789 --> 00:20:56,720
a tough one to consider why people

515
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,799
aren't getting vaccinated a brief

516
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:00,240
article offering

517
00:21:03,510 --> 00:21:02,480
categories based on people's support or

518
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:03,520
rejection of

519
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:07,039
covert vaccination factors contributing

520
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,200
to science rejection across countries

521
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,799
a paper from the netherlands looks at

522
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,039
why people choose to believe nonsense

523
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:16,000
this is the subject of the feature in

524
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,039
the coming issue

525
00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,159
of the skeptic magazine

526
00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:22,480
and a link there so you can subscribe

527
00:21:25,870 --> 00:21:23,679
but of course

528
00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:25,880
you can subscribe by going to

529
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:26,990
skeptics.com.edu

530
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,039
[Music]

531
00:21:32,789 --> 00:21:31,600
pseudoscience can lead to real harm a

532
00:21:36,549 --> 00:21:32,799
heartfelt plea

533
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:36,559
from a teacher retiring from promoting

534
00:21:40,549 --> 00:21:38,960
popular science a lot of this you've

535
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:40,559
probably met before

536
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:43,200
but this is a succinct argument in favor

537
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:44,080
of reasonable

538
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,240
thinking in the face of rampant

539
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:47,919
pseudoscience

540
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:50,880
why you should reconsider astrology

541
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:53,120
wouldn't normally bother too much about

542
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,480
an article written by an

543
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:57,120
astrologer to convince themselves of the

544
00:22:01,029 --> 00:21:58,000
legitimacy

545
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,039
of their art but this one is notable

546
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:04,080
for misunderstanding objections to

547
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:05,600
astrology

548
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:09,039
quote skeptics generally fall into one

549
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:10,400
of two categories

550
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:12,799
the first bunch is dismissive of

551
00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:13,520
astrology

552
00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:16,240
because they never got a legit intro to

553
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:17,039
it

554
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:20,559
generalized

555
00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:23,600
amateur written horoscopes the second is

556
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:25,360
the full-blown haters

557
00:22:31,510 --> 00:22:28,480
hell-bent on blowing it off as

558
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:31,520
useful as a fortune cookie or magic

559
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:32,240
8-ball

560
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,400
and they're somehow incensed by its mere

561
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,000
existence main quote

562
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,880
nothing then about astrology being an

563
00:22:41,510 --> 00:22:40,240
unproven practice based on

564
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,520
pseudoscientific

565
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:44,000
nonsense university of wollongong

566
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,559
teaching dowsing to kids update

567
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:48,559
and you might remember we mentioned this

568
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:51,360
an episode or two ago

569
00:22:55,270 --> 00:22:53,440
last newsletter we alerted our readers

570
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:55,280
to the university of wollongong

571
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:57,200
promoting a course for kids

572
00:23:01,110 --> 00:23:00,159
in years three and four on dowsing as

573
00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:01,120
part of its early

574
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:03,679
learning lab workshops the blurb for the

575
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:04,559
course was

576
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:08,400
full-on quote this is for real end quote

577
00:23:12,549 --> 00:23:10,480
our readers were outraged and contacted

578
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:12,559
the uni to express their concern

579
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:15,919
within minutes the course was cancelled

580
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:19,120
this wasn't a huge thing just a short

581
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:22,480
course for kids nothing like a uni

582
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:24,960
giving a phd to an anti-vaccination

583
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,600
rant for instance but it does show that

584
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:29,679
skeptical activism works

585
00:23:33,270 --> 00:23:31,919
and can work quickly when the message is

586
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:33,280
clear and forthright

587
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:34,960
keep that in mind when the next

588
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:36,799
pseudo-scientific phd

589
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,880
comes along this secret science club

590
00:23:44,549 --> 00:23:43,200
we're told that this monthly series of

591
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,559
science lectures

592
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:46,960
ran live in brooklyn new york for some

593
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,640
years before the pandemic

594
00:23:53,190 --> 00:23:50,880
it's now moved online it's free although

595
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:53,200
donations are gratefully accepted

596
00:23:57,669 --> 00:23:55,120
for the first time they are releasing

597
00:23:59,269 --> 00:23:57,679
recordings of past presentations

598
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,279
then we have information about the next

599
00:24:04,230 --> 00:24:01,120
issue of the skeptic magazine

600
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:04,240
the june 2021 issue of the skeptic will

601
00:24:07,029 --> 00:24:06,240
hit stands very soon metaphorically

602
00:24:08,870 --> 00:24:07,039
speaking

603
00:24:11,350 --> 00:24:08,880
it has a major feature on why people

604
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,360
believe as opposed to what they believe

605
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,760
what psychologists and science leaders

606
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:15,840
think the legal implications of holding

607
00:24:19,190 --> 00:24:16,640
beliefs

608
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,200
and case studies of the victory of

609
00:24:23,750 --> 00:24:21,200
belief over reason

610
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,760
we'll also be looking at the myths and

611
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:25,840
conspiracies associated

612
00:24:29,430 --> 00:24:28,400
with the port arthur massacre that

613
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:29,440
tragic event

614
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:31,840
which occurred 25 years ago and a

615
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:34,240
history of your favorite organization

616
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:37,200
the oxymetrical society the newsletter

617
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:38,080
also lists

618
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:40,720
upcoming events in sydney queensland

619
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,960
canberra perth adelaide victoria gold

620
00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:44,080
coast

621
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:47,200
canberra again they are busy and

622
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:49,200
items of interest include various links

623
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:50,320
to recent

624
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,360
alien stories including former president

625
00:24:57,110 --> 00:24:54,880
barack obama

626
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:57,120
and another late item here sydney

627
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:58,159
highway

628
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:00,559
that locals say is haunted by slain

629
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:01,600
hitchhiker

630
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:04,240
a pair of ghost hunters investigating a

631
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:06,080
paranormal australian highway

632
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:07,760
claimed to have encountered the spirit

633
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:09,760
of a slain hitchhiker while wandering

634
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,720
the road

635
00:25:14,549 --> 00:25:12,880
late at night you don't see many

636
00:25:16,630 --> 00:25:14,559
hitchhikers around anymore

637
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:16,640
sydney's wakehurst parkway is hardly a

638
00:25:20,149 --> 00:25:18,400
highway a stretch of road

639
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:20,159
winding through bushland in the city's

640
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:21,840
northern beaches

641
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:25,360
but it quote is known for falling into

642
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,400
near-total darkness at night end quote

643
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:30,240
most of it is through the bush so

644
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:33,039
naturally falls into darkness

645
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,480
and finally psychic parrot sees the

646
00:25:41,990 --> 00:25:38,640
ghost of a dog friend

647
00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:42,000
a forage slapper actually this is more

648
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:44,320
about the pros and cons of living with a

649
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:45,760
noisy pet parrot

650
00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:47,360
but the video of the talking bird is

651
00:25:54,830 --> 00:25:48,960
cute but

652
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:59,110
paragraph

653
00:26:03,029 --> 00:26:01,190
and just mentioning ufos the seven

654
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:03,039
network runners feature

655
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:07,520
special on last sunday night ufos

656
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:09,760
australia's own ufo cover-up exposed in

657
00:26:13,909 --> 00:26:10,720
seven new

658
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,919
spotlight investigation it went for an

659
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:15,440
hour and a half

660
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:19,440
much and delivered

661
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:22,880
nothing sadly what annoyed me was having

662
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,080
to sit through it in the first place

663
00:26:27,350 --> 00:26:26,320
well that's pretty annoying but the

664
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:27,360
frequent

665
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:30,799
use of debunked videos like tic tac and

666
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,100
go fast and the recent pyramid ones

667
00:26:36,830 --> 00:26:35,039
[Music]

668
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:36,840
it's funny how these ufo hunters and

669
00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:38,080
investigators

670
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:39,520
keep screaming that they want the truth

671
00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:41,200
to come out the truth come out

672
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:42,960
when the truth is out there they ignore

673
00:26:45,909 --> 00:26:44,799
it or pretend it doesn't happen because

674
00:26:48,310 --> 00:26:45,919
it doesn't

675
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,320
match with what they want and they want

676
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,559
ufos to be real at least

677
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:52,400
they want people to think ufos are real

678
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:54,159
long enough to watch their program which

679
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:55,360
i did

680
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:57,760
the documentary circle documentary was

681
00:27:02,870 --> 00:26:59,679
also full of eyewitness accounts

682
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:02,880
and claims of government conspiracy etc

683
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,720
etc we've seen it all before we've heard

684
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:07,279
it all before going back decades and

685
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:10,320
decades and decades

686
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:12,080
some of the gems from decades past

687
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:14,159
include chariots of the gods

688
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:17,200
overlords of the ufo mysteries of the

689
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:18,159
gods

690
00:27:22,789 --> 00:27:21,760
it has begun ufo syndrome the alien

691
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:22,799
autopsy

692
00:27:26,630 --> 00:27:25,279
australian ufos and alien encounters

693
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:26,640
down under

694
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:29,679
ufo phenomenon seeing is believing

695
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:32,320
so this one seven new spotlight special

696
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:33,520
the phenomenon

697
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:35,840
likely use that word reveals the truth

698
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:37,600
about ufos

699
00:27:42,710 --> 00:27:40,640
is simply next on the list

700
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:42,720
and it will be catalogued and become

701
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:44,559
part of history and

702
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:46,399
i think in 10 years they'll have a brand

703
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:48,320
new documentary exposing the truth and

704
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:49,760
they're out there and the government's

705
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,399
conspiracies

706
00:27:56,630 --> 00:27:53,919
mick west if you're listening we do

707
00:28:03,190 --> 00:27:58,549
and you can subscribe to that newsletter

708
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:03,200
yourself at skeptics.com

709
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:16,230
hey fellow skeptics ben radford here

710
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:17,520
with celestia ward

711
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:19,039
your friendly host of squaring the

712
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:21,440
strange a podcast that looks at topics

713
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,720
ranging from legends

714
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:25,120
panics and cryptids to media myths

715
00:28:28,310 --> 00:28:26,480
psychology and folklore

716
00:28:30,149 --> 00:28:28,320
breaking things down and picking things

717
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,159
apart as we skeptics do

718
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,159
we bring a few different perspectives on

719
00:28:35,430 --> 00:28:34,559
things celestia for example is a witty

720
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:35,440
cartoonist

721
00:28:38,870 --> 00:28:37,200
and ben is a brilliant writer and long

722
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:38,880
time skeptical investigator

723
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:40,799
we don't always agree but we have fun

724
00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:42,880
trying and we learn new things

725
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:45,360
join us for new topics every week or two

726
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:47,440
or browse our backlog of evergreen

727
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:48,240
episodes

728
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:51,279
available on itunes and all your podcast

729
00:28:56,830 --> 00:28:53,600
feeding troughs squaring the strange

730
00:29:08,310 --> 00:28:59,450
bye-bye

731
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:14,549
and now a reading from the book of tim

732
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:15,680
with tim menden

733
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,669
hi my name's tim mendenham i'm the

734
00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:25,600
editor of australian skeptics magazine

735
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:26,640
the skeptic

736
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:28,080
and this one is for our friends in

737
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:33,430
today i'll be reading from the skeptic

738
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:36,960
magazine september 2017 which is volume

739
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:37,840
37

740
00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:40,640
number three i'm taking the reading from

741
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:41,600
our regular column

742
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,840
what goes around which is based on the

743
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,279
premise that you can start off with a

744
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:47,200
particular fact or anecdote

745
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:49,120
and by various connections work your way

746
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:50,559
all the way back round to where you

747
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:52,080
started from

748
00:29:55,909 --> 00:29:55,039
and the reading today is about staring

749
00:29:57,100 --> 00:29:55,919
storing

750
00:30:03,590 --> 00:29:57,110
and summoning up

751
00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:03,600
[Music]

752
00:30:07,710 --> 00:30:05,840
and we're looking at the psychic staring

753
00:30:10,630 --> 00:30:07,720
effect which is sometimes called

754
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,640
scopasthesia which is a supposed

755
00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:12,720
phenomenon in which humans

756
00:30:17,029 --> 00:30:15,679
detect being stared at by extrasensory

757
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:17,039
means

758
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:18,640
the idea was first explored by

759
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:20,240
psychologist edward b

760
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:24,159
titchener in 1898 after students in his

761
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:24,880
junior

762
00:30:29,590 --> 00:30:27,440
classes reported being able to feel when

763
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:29,600
somebody was looking at them

764
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,039
even though they could not see this

765
00:30:35,590 --> 00:30:33,679
person titchener performed a series of

766
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:35,600
laboratory experiments that found only

767
00:30:38,789 --> 00:30:36,000
negative

768
00:30:40,269 --> 00:30:38,799
results the effect has been the subject

769
00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:40,279
of contemporary attention from

770
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:41,600
parapsychologists

771
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:44,080
and friends researchers from the 1980s

772
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:44,960
onwards

773
00:30:49,029 --> 00:30:47,520
not to mention a school classroom test

774
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:49,039
by victorian skeptic

775
00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:51,440
adam van langenberg which you can read

776
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:52,799
about in an earlier issue of our

777
00:30:56,389 --> 00:30:53,679
magazine

778
00:31:00,470 --> 00:30:56,399
volume 32 number three edward bradford

779
00:31:02,389 --> 00:31:00,480
titchener who lived from 1867 to 1927

780
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:02,399
was a british psychologist best known

781
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,000
for creating his version

782
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:06,080
of psychology that described the

783
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:07,600
structure of the mind

784
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:10,640
structuralism he created the largest

785
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:13,039
doctoral program in the united states at

786
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,760
the time

787
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:15,679
after becoming a professor at cornell

788
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:16,799
university

789
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:18,720
and his first graduate student margaret

790
00:31:21,990 --> 00:31:20,080
floy washburn

791
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,000
became the first woman to be granted a

792
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:24,880
phd in psychology

793
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:25,919
he was a chartered member of the

794
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,679
american psychological association

795
00:31:32,310 --> 00:31:29,440
became the american editor of

796
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,320
mind magazine in 1894 an associate

797
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:33,760
editor of the american journal of

798
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:34,720
psychology

799
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:38,640
in 1895 and wrote several books in 1904

800
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:39,919
he founded the group

801
00:31:44,830 --> 00:31:42,080
the experimentalists which continues

802
00:31:47,909 --> 00:31:44,840
today as the society of experimental

803
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,919
psychologists tituna's brain

804
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,000
was donated to the wilder brain

805
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:52,799
collection at cornell

806
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:55,120
now the wilder brain collection in the

807
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:56,640
cornell university department of

808
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:57,600
psychology

809
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,600
houses approximately 120 human brains

810
00:32:05,190 --> 00:32:03,200
from the original collection of 600 so

811
00:32:08,549 --> 00:32:05,200
i'm not sure what happened to the others

812
00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:08,559
it was created by bert wilder in 1889

813
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,799
to collect the brains of educated and

814
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:12,720
orderly persons

815
00:32:15,990 --> 00:32:15,120
brains on display include that of edward

816
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:16,000
h roloff

817
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:17,840
also known as roloff rulerson or

818
00:32:22,310 --> 00:32:20,799
ruloffson a 19th century american doctor

819
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:22,320
lawyer schoolmaster photographer

820
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:24,159
inventor carpet designer phrenologist

821
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:25,120
philologist

822
00:32:30,389 --> 00:32:28,159
and serial killer ruloff's brain is said

823
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:30,399
to be one of the largest on record

824
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:32,000
the collection also includes a piece of

825
00:32:37,990 --> 00:32:34,720
a pumpkin that was placed on the spike

826
00:32:41,269 --> 00:32:38,000
of the university's mcgraw tower in 1997

827
00:32:45,029 --> 00:32:41,279
and wilder's own brain bert green

828
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:45,039
wilder born 1841 died 1925

829
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:47,760
was an american comparative anatomist he

830
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,440
graduated at harvard from the lawrence

831
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,000
scientific school in 1862

832
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:54,880
and the medical department in 1866

833
00:32:59,669 --> 00:32:56,720
during part of the u.s civil war

834
00:33:01,830 --> 00:32:59,679
he served as surgeon of the 55th negro

835
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:01,840
massachusetts infantry

836
00:33:06,950 --> 00:33:05,200
from 1867 to his retirement in 1910

837
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:06,960
he was professor of neurology and

838
00:33:12,230 --> 00:33:08,559
vertebrate zoology

839
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,240
at cornell in 1885 he was president

840
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,559
of the american neurological association

841
00:33:18,710 --> 00:33:16,720
and in 1898 of the association of

842
00:33:20,470 --> 00:33:18,720
american anatomists

843
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,480
wilder is credited with the earliest

844
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:22,240
known instance of the term

845
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:26,240
neuron in 1884 when he used the word to

846
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:26,880
describe

847
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:30,399
the cerebrospinal axis also known as the

848
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:32,720
central nervous system

849
00:33:35,990 --> 00:33:34,480
neurons are cells that send and receive

850
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,000
electrochemical signals

851
00:33:40,950 --> 00:33:38,799
to and from the brain and nervous system

852
00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,960
there are about 100 billion neurons in

853
00:33:44,549 --> 00:33:41,840
the brain

854
00:33:45,350 --> 00:33:44,559
in 2012 mit researchers showed for the

855
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:45,360
first time

856
00:33:48,789 --> 00:33:47,440
that memories are stored in specific

857
00:33:51,350 --> 00:33:48,799
brain cells

858
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:51,360
by triggering a small cluster of neurons

859
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:53,120
the researchers were able to force the

860
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:54,240
subject to recall

861
00:33:57,909 --> 00:33:57,120
a specific memory by removing these

862
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:57,919
neurons

863
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:00,559
the subject would lose that memory the

864
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:02,480
location of memory in the brain was the

865
00:34:07,990 --> 00:34:05,360
subject of a debate in the late 1980s

866
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:08,000
between professor stephen rose

867
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:10,480
neuroscientist from the open university

868
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,960
and rupert sheldrake former biochemist

869
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:14,320
and cell biologist

870
00:34:18,550 --> 00:34:17,200
at cambridge alfred rupert sheldrake

871
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,560
1942

872
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,560
and still living english author

873
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:22,480
researcher and parapsychologist

874
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:24,399
known for the debunked concept of

875
00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:26,639
morphic resonance

876
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,159
in a column in the guardian he wrote

877
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,159
that the idea that memories were stored

878
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,480
in our brains was only a theory

879
00:34:37,349 --> 00:34:34,399
and despite decades of research the

880
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:37,359
phenomenon of memory remains mysterious

881
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:39,679
sheldrake attacked his critic rose for

882
00:34:43,190 --> 00:34:41,599
following materialism

883
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:43,200
arguing that quantum physics had

884
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,960
overturned materialism

885
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:47,040
and suggested that memories may turn out

886
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:48,000
to depend

887
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,520
on morphic resonance rather than memory

888
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:53,760
traces sheldrake ventured into

889
00:34:57,750 --> 00:34:55,599
paranormal areas

890
00:34:59,670 --> 00:34:57,760
one of his books being the sense of

891
00:35:02,230 --> 00:34:59,680
being stared at

892
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:02,240
exploring telepathy precognition and the

893
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:04,640
psychic staring effect which is where we

894
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:06,250
came from in the start

895
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,000
[Music]

896
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:12,560
and that's what goes around from skeptic

897
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,520
september 2017 volume 37

898
00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:17,520
number three and you can download that

899
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:19,520
copy and most of our magazines

900
00:35:26,230 --> 00:35:24,240
from our website skeptics.com.iu

901
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:26,240
and while you're there why not have a

902
00:35:30,390 --> 00:35:27,920
look at this subscription form

903
00:35:31,270 --> 00:35:30,400
and you can find out what future stories

904
00:35:33,780 --> 00:35:31,280
we'll have

905
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:33,790
as soon as they arrive

906
00:35:40,450 --> 00:35:43,670
[Music]

907
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:46,390
hi my name's joe thornley and i'd like

908
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:47,760
you to join my co

909
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:50,240
um i'd like you to listen to my podcast

910
00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,680
about cults

911
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,000
called zealot it's available pretty much

912
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,000
anywhere you find podcasts with further

913
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:58,800
reading on the zealot facebook page

914
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:00,960
each episode a guest joins me to talk

915
00:36:04,630 --> 00:36:02,800
about a specific cult where we answer

916
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:04,640
the big questions like

917
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:11,960
and does anyone think they're jesus

918
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:20,069
pop over to my compound and have a

919
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:22,320
listen i've just mixed up a fresh batch

920
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:26,800
of kool-aid

921
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,710
now let's look once more into those

922
00:36:49,829 --> 00:36:47,520
digital archives from around the world

923
00:36:51,030 --> 00:36:49,839
online newspapers gazettes magazines and

924
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:51,040
so on

925
00:36:58,310 --> 00:36:55,359
digitized by national libraries

926
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,320
uh archivists whatever the case may be

927
00:37:03,270 --> 00:36:59,920
i'm glad they're doing it

928
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:03,280
because it gives us access to a treasure

929
00:37:08,710 --> 00:37:05,280
trove of information

930
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:08,720
now inspired by the so-called blood

931
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:12,720
moon eclipse from a couple of weeks ago

932
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,880
i thought we would look into reports

933
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:17,280
about the full moon

934
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:22,960
and crime

935
00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:26,000
and i've picked uh three items of

936
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:29,880
interest the first one comes to us from

937
00:37:35,190 --> 00:37:31,920
1972

938
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:35,200
published in the amarillo globe times

939
00:37:44,130 --> 00:37:39,040
on the 21st of june

940
00:37:48,310 --> 00:37:44,140
full moon on miami means rise in crime

941
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,430
dallas associated press when the full

942
00:37:56,390 --> 00:37:52,800
moon peers down on

943
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,400
dallas it doesn't send any chills up the

944
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:58,320
spines of police

945
00:38:01,349 --> 00:38:00,480
a recent report from miami stated the

946
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,359
police there

947
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:04,560
literally dread the full moon even

948
00:38:08,310 --> 00:38:05,839
though it hasn't been

949
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,320
scientifically proven that one means

950
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:09,920
trouble

951
00:38:13,510 --> 00:38:12,560
the full moon is the miami police guide

952
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:13,520
as to when the

953
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:16,000
volume of crime both minor and violent

954
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:17,680
will increase

955
00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:21,280
in dallas police scoff at that belief

956
00:38:25,349 --> 00:38:23,599
as far as we're concerned the full moon

957
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:25,359
is just another day first

958
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:27,839
we don't pay any attention to it said

959
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:30,320
homicide captain jack davis

960
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:33,359
however miami has a study on which

961
00:38:39,270 --> 00:38:37,359
to base its fear dr arnold lieber

962
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:39,280
psychiatric consultant for its police

963
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:41,280
department recently completed an

964
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:44,320
in-depth study of all the crime data

965
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:47,760
it indicated a definite trend that shows

966
00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:49,280
more service calls

967
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:52,400
crime and other police activity on

968
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,480
days of the full moon dr liebers said he

969
00:39:02,550 --> 00:38:58,960
studied the crime trend over a more

970
00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:02,560
than 10 year period while no major study

971
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,520
on the

972
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,760
moon crime relationship has been

973
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:07,440
conducted in dallas

974
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:09,599
a brief look at this year's murder rate

975
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:12,000
seems to discount the theory

976
00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:15,119
through the first five full moons this

977
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,000
year

978
00:39:19,910 --> 00:39:17,920
none of the city's 80 homicides were

979
00:39:23,270 --> 00:39:19,920
recorded on any of the days

980
00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:23,280
with full moons service calls on

981
00:39:28,470 --> 00:39:26,480
the alleged violent days have not been

982
00:39:30,150 --> 00:39:28,480
drastically above the total of other

983
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,160
days only once

984
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:33,359
on april 28th did the service calls

985
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,640
rise sharply the most common explanation

986
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:38,160
given for a belief in

987
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,200
more crime on full moon days is the

988
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:43,920
pressure exerted by a full moon it

989
00:39:48,310 --> 00:39:45,680
causes high tides and

990
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:48,320
astrologists believe it puts the same

991
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:49,040
pressure

992
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:53,119
on the human brain thus making a person

993
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,079
less likely to control his behavior or

994
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:58,320
violent tendencies

995
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:00,880
and that reminds me of something i heard

996
00:40:03,910 --> 00:40:02,720
just the other day on the radio as i was

997
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:03,920
driving along

998
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,760
and forgive me i can't remember who was

999
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,599
speaking but it was about crime

1000
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:09,440
statistics and full moons and things

1001
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:10,480
like that

1002
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,240
and the story related was that a certain

1003
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:13,839
police department

1004
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:16,079
thought that the full moon caused more

1005
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:17,200
crime

1006
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:20,800
moons

1007
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:23,680
but it appears that is because the

1008
00:40:27,990 --> 00:40:25,520
police department

1009
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:28,000
were more vigilant and sent out more

1010
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:30,240
patrols on nights with full moons

1011
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:33,680
thus the normal rate of crime that would

1012
00:40:37,349 --> 00:40:34,160
have

1013
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:37,359
happened anyway well more of that was

1014
00:40:41,270 --> 00:40:38,640
reported

1015
00:40:43,589 --> 00:40:41,280
and so it was sort of like a um a

1016
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:43,599
self-fulfilling prophecy

1017
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:45,760
interesting stuff anyway the next item

1018
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:47,200
we come to

1019
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:50,400
is from the las vegas sun dated the 7th

1020
00:40:56,230 --> 00:40:52,800
of february 1976

1021
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:56,240
a piece by harold hyman crime and the

1022
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:57,440
full moon

1023
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,920
a popular notion through the years has

1024
00:41:04,710 --> 00:41:01,599
been that the phases of the moon

1025
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:04,720
and incidents of violent crime

1026
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:07,200
are somehow related when the moon is

1027
00:41:10,470 --> 00:41:07,760
full

1028
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,480
some people say the rate of violent or

1029
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:12,880
passionate crime increases

1030
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:15,680
by passionate crime they mean murder

1031
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:16,560
suicide

1032
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:19,760
assault rape family fights some type of

1033
00:41:23,750 --> 00:41:20,560
vandalism

1034
00:41:23,990 --> 00:41:23,760
automobile manslaughter reckless driving

1035
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,000
and

1036
00:41:27,750 --> 00:41:26,720
in general the kinds of crime that go

1037
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:27,760
hand in hand with

1038
00:41:32,069 --> 00:41:30,800
strong emotion many policemen subscribe

1039
00:41:34,470 --> 00:41:32,079
to this theory

1040
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:34,480
they watch the moon and when it

1041
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:36,000
approaches the full

1042
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:39,040
phase they will carry an extra gun in

1043
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:40,319
their boot

1044
00:41:46,309 --> 00:41:43,440
approach people with extreme caution and

1045
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:46,319
generally assume that the populace is

1046
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:47,040
apt

1047
00:41:51,910 --> 00:41:50,960
to be squirrely a little aside here from

1048
00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:51,920
me

1049
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:53,839
they will carry an extra gun in their

1050
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,319
boot that's quite funny because here in

1051
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:58,319
australia the boot

1052
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:01,599
is the trunk of the car but here

1053
00:42:04,790 --> 00:42:03,839
i'm sure it means the boot the boot you

1054
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:04,800
wear

1055
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:07,200
so the police carry an extra gun in

1056
00:42:11,670 --> 00:42:08,720
their footwear

1057
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:11,680
we read on a common phrase in the police

1058
00:42:14,470 --> 00:42:14,000
squad room before a work shift during

1059
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:14,480
the

1060
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:21,920
moon

1061
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:25,040
somehow affects our bodies and causes

1062
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,319
still not understood mood changes

1063
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:30,880
after all our bodies are mostly water

1064
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:32,880
and therefore subject to

1065
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:36,480
moon caused tidal forces

1066
00:42:41,750 --> 00:42:39,599
just as oceans are adherents argue

1067
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:41,760
one metro officer assigned to the county

1068
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:43,119
jail swears

1069
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:46,560
the full moon causes inmate disturbances

1070
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:50,000
you can see it coming he says and his

1071
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:50,640
eyes get

1072
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:53,680
wide as the moon gets larger night after

1073
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:55,119
night we have more fights

1074
00:42:58,390 --> 00:42:56,720
usually we can hold things down well

1075
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:58,400
enough but there are those times and

1076
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:59,760
they come with a full moon

1077
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:02,079
when a mass inmate fight breaks out and

1078
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:03,680
they half kill each other

1079
00:43:08,710 --> 00:43:06,800
before we can get in and stop it the

1080
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:08,720
jailer adds that as the moon

1081
00:43:13,030 --> 00:43:11,920
wanes so do passions of inmates

1082
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:13,040
disturbances

1083
00:43:19,270 --> 00:43:16,160
become less frequent when the moon is

1084
00:43:22,950 --> 00:43:19,280
in its final or new phase there is

1085
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:22,960
absolutely no trouble at all he says

1086
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:26,240
but what do statistics show

1087
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:28,480
police keep accurate records of crimes

1088
00:43:32,069 --> 00:43:29,440
and arrests

1089
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:32,079
their statistics do not support the full

1090
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:32,480
moon

1091
00:43:37,510 --> 00:43:36,000
theory not at all passionate and violent

1092
00:43:40,069 --> 00:43:37,520
crimes occurred during

1093
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:40,079
every phase of the moon during every

1094
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:41,359
part of the month

1095
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,359
certainly the night of a full moon may

1096
00:43:47,750 --> 00:43:45,119
see a rise in police

1097
00:43:49,589 --> 00:43:47,760
and ambulance calls but that rise can

1098
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:49,599
and does occur at other times

1099
00:43:53,589 --> 00:43:52,079
times when the moon is waning and

1100
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:53,599
according to the theory

1101
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:57,119
when the incidence of lunar activity

1102
00:44:01,750 --> 00:44:00,000
should be decreasing conversely there

1103
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:01,760
are full moon nights when there is

1104
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,079
hardly any police activity at all

1105
00:44:07,670 --> 00:44:06,640
and the calls that do come in relate to

1106
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:07,680
long-term

1107
00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:10,800
embezzlement forgery natural death and

1108
00:44:14,390 --> 00:44:12,400
the kinds of crimes that are not

1109
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,400
governed by emotion or

1110
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:16,880
by the moon or anything relating to

1111
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:17,680
either

1112
00:44:21,589 --> 00:44:20,480
what one begins to suspect after talking

1113
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,599
to policemen

1114
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,640
who believe the full moon theory and

1115
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:27,119
after examining the record is that the

1116
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:30,079
policemen themselves are squirrels

1117
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:33,280
and moon freaks they believe in

1118
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:35,119
the theory because it is something to

1119
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:37,680
believe in not because it is true

1120
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:40,880
besides it is romantic or dramatic

1121
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,400
something that puts zip into the day

1122
00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:46,560
or the night's activity and something

1123
00:44:51,030 --> 00:44:47,760
that makes great

1124
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:51,040
party conversation let's switch from the

1125
00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:51,599
moon

1126
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,640
but not from police the following

1127
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:56,960
tidbit from police headquarters doesn't

1128
00:45:02,230 --> 00:44:58,720
normally get into the papers

1129
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:02,240
and it's time that it does cops assigned

1130
00:45:05,829 --> 00:45:03,920
to west las vegas

1131
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:05,839
take their lives in their hands whenever

1132
00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:07,200
they answer a call

1133
00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:10,319
and that goes for black cops as well as

1134
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:11,200
white

1135
00:45:16,470 --> 00:45:13,920
to most of the bums who hang around the

1136
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:16,480
pool halls the bars and street corners

1137
00:45:22,230 --> 00:45:20,160
cops are pigs with depressing regularity

1138
00:45:24,390 --> 00:45:22,240
police cars are targets of rocks and

1139
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:24,400
bottles when officers arrive to answer

1140
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:25,280
the most

1141
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:28,480
simple disturbance call this includes

1142
00:45:35,349 --> 00:45:29,839
north las vegas

1143
00:45:37,910 --> 00:45:35,359
went to a house on helen street

1144
00:45:38,550 --> 00:45:37,920
to answer a disturbance call from

1145
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:38,560
neighbours

1146
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:41,920
who complained of a too loud party

1147
00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:44,160
when the cops arrived they were met with

1148
00:45:48,150 --> 00:45:45,280
whiskey bottles

1149
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:48,160
thrown from the front porch they called

1150
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:49,040
for help

1151
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:52,079
more bottles and large rocks were heaved

1152
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,359
at the arriving squad cars metro came

1153
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:57,680
in with extra assistance and the

1154
00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:00,240
confrontation became a standoff with

1155
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,880
neither the cops nor the party-goers

1156
00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:04,400
giving an inch

1157
00:46:10,550 --> 00:46:07,440
the bottles and rocks stopped flying

1158
00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:10,560
but the party-goers would not disperse

1159
00:46:15,990 --> 00:46:13,680
the two sides just stood there

1160
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:16,000
and looked at each other finally the

1161
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:17,359
cops backed off

1162
00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:21,040
they had to what else was there to do

1163
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:23,440
the situation is not uncommon it happens

1164
00:46:27,670 --> 00:46:24,240
more often

1165
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:27,680
as the months pass police cars assigned

1166
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:29,839
to west las vegas frequently come back

1167
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:31,680
to headquarters with their side

1168
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,319
windows emergency red lights and

1169
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:36,000
sometimes their windshields

1170
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:38,560
broken out the cops think they're lucky

1171
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:40,079
they don't come back in the same

1172
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:40,880
condition

1173
00:46:44,790 --> 00:46:43,920
and the byline harold hyman a veteran

1174
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:44,800
reporter

1175
00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:46,720
has covered crime for the sun for a

1176
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:49,359
decade it was his personal suspicion

1177
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:51,200
that crime frequency corresponded to

1178
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:52,240
full moons

1179
00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:55,119
so he researched and found it untrue and

1180
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,720
that was interesting that after the full

1181
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:58,319
moon piece

1182
00:47:01,430 --> 00:47:00,880
the story went on about the problems

1183
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:01,440
that

1184
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:03,920
faced police in las vegas and i wonder

1185
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:04,880
after about

1186
00:47:09,030 --> 00:47:07,359
what is it about 45 years whether that

1187
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:09,040
is still the case

1188
00:47:12,550 --> 00:47:10,880
maybe my friend celestia ward from

1189
00:47:13,990 --> 00:47:12,560
squaring the strange who lives in las

1190
00:47:17,589 --> 00:47:14,000
vegas

1191
00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:17,599
she might know and finally we come

1192
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:22,800
to the lethbridge herald

1193
00:47:27,349 --> 00:47:25,760
and i'm not sure where that is from the

1194
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:27,359
lethbridge herald

1195
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:31,760
anyway it's dated the 1st of august 2007

1196
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:36,480
but it does involve a story from vienna

1197
00:47:43,510 --> 00:47:40,319
full moon is not connected to accidents

1198
00:47:46,150 --> 00:47:43,520
vienna austria associated press

1199
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,160
ever whacked your thumb with a hammer or

1200
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:48,240
wrenched your back after lifting a heavy

1201
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:49,200
box

1202
00:47:55,750 --> 00:47:52,240
and blamed the full moon it's a popular

1203
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:55,760
notion but there's no cosmic connection

1204
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:57,680
austrian government researchers said

1205
00:48:01,510 --> 00:47:59,040
tuesday

1206
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:01,520
robert sieberger a physicist and

1207
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:02,400
astronomer

1208
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:05,520
at the ministry of economic affairs said

1209
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:06,000
a team

1210
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:09,920
of experts analyzed 500 000 industrial

1211
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:11,359
accidents in austria

1212
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:14,800
between 2000 and 2004 and found

1213
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:18,160
no link to lunar activity the full moon

1214
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:20,079
does not unfavorably affect

1215
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:22,400
the likelihood of an accident seaburger

1216
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,280
said

1217
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:25,599
the study released tuesday by the

1218
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:28,240
general accident insurance office

1219
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:31,200
said that on average there were 415

1220
00:48:35,270 --> 00:48:31,920
workplace

1221
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:35,280
accidents registered per day yet on days

1222
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:36,480
when the moon was

1223
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,760
full the average actually dipped to 385

1224
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,280
although the difference was not

1225
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:45,440
statistically significant

1226
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:48,880
the lunar influence theory dates at

1227
00:48:53,190 --> 00:48:50,079
least to the first

1228
00:48:55,030 --> 00:48:53,200
century a.d when the roman scholar

1229
00:48:56,950 --> 00:48:55,040
pliny the elder wrote that his

1230
00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:56,960
observations suggested

1231
00:49:03,190 --> 00:49:00,000
the moon produces drowsiness and

1232
00:49:04,230 --> 00:49:03,200
stupa in those who sleep outside beneath

1233
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:04,240
her beams

1234
00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,240
seaburger who advises the austrian

1235
00:49:10,549 --> 00:49:08,400
government on accident prevention

1236
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,559
said he and fellow researcher manfred

1237
00:49:14,549 --> 00:49:13,200
huber decided to take a closer look

1238
00:49:17,829 --> 00:49:14,559
because the full moon

1239
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:17,839
theory kept surfacing again

1240
00:49:21,990 --> 00:49:20,559
and again they also checked for a

1241
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:22,000
possible interplay

1242
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:24,000
between the rate of accidents and the

1243
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:25,839
position of the moon

1244
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:27,839
theorizing that gravity might have some

1245
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:29,200
effect in tripping

1246
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:32,240
people up at work but the moon orbits

1247
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:32,960
the planet

1248
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:36,079
in almost a perfect circle and there was

1249
00:49:40,549 --> 00:49:38,160
no statistically significant

1250
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:40,559
relationship between the accident rate

1251
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:43,280
and the moon's closest proximity to

1252
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:44,640
earth there were

1253
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:47,920
an average of 400 accidents on days when

1254
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:48,880
the moon

1255
00:49:54,190 --> 00:49:52,000
nudged closest the study found compared

1256
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,200
to an average of

1257
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:57,359
396 per day at other times

1258
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:59,839
past studies have differed on whether

1259
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:02,000
the full moon affects humans by

1260
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:05,599
subtly influencing quote biological

1261
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:06,640
tides

1262
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:09,200
end quote a landmark study published in

1263
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:12,160
1984 by the british medical journal

1264
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:15,040
examined the incidence of crimes

1265
00:50:21,670 --> 00:50:18,640
reported to police from 1978 to 1982

1266
00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:21,680
in three locations in india one rural

1267
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:22,000
one

1268
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:26,240
in crime

1269
00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:28,640
on full moon days compared to all other

1270
00:50:32,870 --> 00:50:29,440
days

1271
00:50:35,430 --> 00:50:32,880
but another study done in canada in 1998

1272
00:50:36,470 --> 00:50:35,440
by university of saskatchewan

1273
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:36,480
researchers

1274
00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:39,760
looked at nearly 250 000 traffic

1275
00:50:43,589 --> 00:50:42,400
accidents that caused property damage or

1276
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:43,599
non-fatal injuries

1277
00:50:47,829 --> 00:50:46,800
over a nine-year period and found no

1278
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:47,839
relationship

1279
00:50:52,829 --> 00:50:50,559
to the lunar phase most scientists agree

1280
00:50:56,069 --> 00:50:52,839
that at nearly

1281
00:50:59,109 --> 00:50:56,079
385 000 kilometers away

1282
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:59,119
the moon is simply too distant and human

1283
00:51:03,270 --> 00:51:00,640
beings too small

1284
00:51:04,150 --> 00:51:03,280
for it to have any significant effect

1285
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:04,160
there is no

1286
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:07,200
real reason why it should said d john

1287
00:51:10,549 --> 00:51:08,160
hillier

1288
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:10,559
a professor of astronomy at the

1289
00:51:14,390 --> 00:51:11,599
university of

1290
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:14,400
pittsburgh who was not involved in the

1291
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:15,680
austrian study

1292
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:18,079
it's often probably just cases of people

1293
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:18,960
remembering

1294
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:21,200
that there happened to be a full moon

1295
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:23,760
when something occurred he said

1296
00:51:26,950 --> 00:51:25,920
when nothing special happens they tend

1297
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:26,960
not to notice

1298
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:30,319
what the moon is doing so this selective

1299
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:31,040
memory

1300
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:37,760
just keeps the legend going

1301
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:40,000
and that was just three of the many many

1302
00:51:43,829 --> 00:51:41,200
many many

1303
00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:43,839
articles returned when i do a search for

1304
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:45,520
full moon and crime

1305
00:51:49,030 --> 00:51:47,280
i guess i could have done one for full

1306
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:49,040
moon and um

1307
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:51,839
hospitals or something like that i might

1308
00:51:54,170 --> 00:51:53,760
have found some interesting results as

1309
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:54,180
well

1310
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:56,960
[Music]

1311
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:59,280
by and large all in all i think it's

1312
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:00,000
more or less

1313
00:52:05,670 --> 00:52:04,000
recognized that the full moon doesn't

1314
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:05,680
have these sort of effects on humans

1315
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,599
that are claimed

1316
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:09,839
although like many myths it is fun to

1317
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:11,200
research

1318
00:52:18,069 --> 00:52:15,200
articles and

1319
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:18,079
newspapers and clippings and so on if

1320
00:52:20,790 --> 00:52:20,079
you're in australia or anywhere in the

1321
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:20,800
world

1322
00:52:27,430 --> 00:52:24,079
you can go to trove at t-r-o-t-e

1323
00:52:30,870 --> 00:52:27,440
trove dot n-l-a dot gov

1324
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:30,880
dot a-u but why not go online and check

1325
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,440
out what

1326
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:33,680
your country is doing by way of

1327
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:34,720
archiving

1328
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:59,430
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1329
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:01,280
zone richard saunders here with you back

1330
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:03,200
again in the studio

1331
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,599
and what a fantastic time it was to be

1332
00:53:09,270 --> 00:53:07,119
out and about

1333
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:09,280
meeting people at skeptics in the pub

1334
00:53:12,549 --> 00:53:11,119
really happy that's back again

1335
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:12,559
and really feeling for the people in

1336
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:14,160
victoria in melbourne

1337
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:17,040
who are still suffering from the

1338
00:53:22,390 --> 00:53:18,400
lockdown

1339
00:53:25,510 --> 00:53:22,400
people in melbourne

1340
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:25,520
it's uh it's a pain to be sure

1341
00:53:29,750 --> 00:53:28,480
it's not good but i think they've had

1342
00:53:32,390 --> 00:53:29,760
plenty of practice and

1343
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:32,400
i think they're very adaptable and i'm

1344
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:34,079
sure the people in melbourne are just

1345
00:53:37,430 --> 00:53:35,520
getting on with it they know what they

1346
00:53:38,549 --> 00:53:37,440
have to do they know what they have to

1347
00:53:40,150 --> 00:53:38,559
do i've got many good friends in

1348
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:40,160
melbourne who i miss

1349
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:43,680
very much and i

1350
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:46,079
pay tribute to their resilience i think

1351
00:53:49,510 --> 00:53:47,440
they've been going in and out of

1352
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:49,520
lockdown more than anywhere else in the

1353
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:50,240
country

1354
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:52,960
but it is a pity to see those protesters

1355
00:53:58,549 --> 00:53:55,520
fronting up at vaccination centers to

1356
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:58,559
rail and rant and carry on

1357
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:01,920
they make the news they yell freedom and

1358
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:03,599
all these

1359
00:54:08,069 --> 00:54:05,839
sovereign citizen arguments and

1360
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:08,079
conspiratorial thinking as i said and

1361
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,680
the government are full of microchips

1362
00:54:11,910 --> 00:54:11,200
and blah blah blah you've heard it all

1363
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:11,920
before

1364
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,440
but it's good to see people in melbourne

1365
00:54:16,390 --> 00:54:15,359
are treating these people with the

1366
00:54:18,790 --> 00:54:16,400
contempt

1367
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,800
they deserve and still fronting up to

1368
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:20,400
get their vaccinations

1369
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:22,240
coming up on next week's show more book

1370
00:54:26,470 --> 00:54:24,800
of tim with tim mendes more from the

1371
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:26,480
trove archives

1372
00:54:31,510 --> 00:54:29,839
i just have to look and see what to do

1373
00:54:33,430 --> 00:54:31,520
see what to research in those trove

1374
00:54:33,990 --> 00:54:33,440
archives thank you to those people

1375
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:34,000
who've

1376
00:54:38,470 --> 00:54:36,880
commented to me at the pub actually

1377
00:54:39,349 --> 00:54:38,480
skeptics in the pub how much they enjoy

1378
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:39,359
the trove

1379
00:54:45,829 --> 00:54:42,559
segment uh historical

1380
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:45,839
items and news reports about matters of

1381
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:47,520
interest to skeptics

1382
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,960
and thank you to those people who

1383
00:54:52,789 --> 00:54:50,559
contribute to the skeptic zone via

1384
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:52,799
patreon or paypal

1385
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:56,160
at skepticzone.tv it means the show

1386
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:57,920
keeps going and all you people out there

1387
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:00,480
listening to the show

1388
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:03,680
regardless i'm very pleased to do that

1389
00:55:06,950 --> 00:55:05,440
but you can thank those people who

1390
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:06,960
contribute even if it's

1391
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:09,040
a dollar a week or two dollars a week or

1392
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:10,799
something like that to the show

1393
00:55:14,390 --> 00:55:13,599
it means you get to listen to it but for

1394
00:55:16,549 --> 00:55:14,400
this week

1395
00:55:22,309 --> 00:55:16,559
this is richard saunders signing off

1396
00:55:25,510 --> 00:55:24,069
you've been listening to the skeptic

1397
00:55:28,750 --> 00:55:25,520
zone podcast

1398
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:28,760
please visit our website at

1399
00:55:33,190 --> 00:55:30,079
www.skepticzone.tv

1400
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:33,200
for show notes contacts and to access

1401
00:55:38,710 --> 00:55:35,200
the back catalog of episodes

1402
00:55:40,789 --> 00:55:38,720
going back to 2008 you can follow the

1403
00:55:44,230 --> 00:55:40,799
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1404
00:55:47,750 --> 00:55:44,240
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1405
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,760
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1406
00:55:52,390 --> 00:55:49,200
support the skeptic zone

1407
00:55:53,109 --> 00:55:52,400
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1408
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:53,119
podcast

1409
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:56,079
is an independent production the views

1410
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:57,839
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1411
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,240
zone

1412
00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:00,240
are not necessarily those of australian